Today was an amazing display of BYU dominance as they took UCLA behind the wood shed and soundly beat them down. 59-0. Max Hall threw for 7 touchdowns today. It was the worst defeat for UCLA in 75 years. It was unbelievable how dominant BYU was. After last weeks game at Washington, I thought for sure they were going to lose to UCLA, but they showed up to play and humbled the Bruins. In all, the Mountain West Conference went 4-0 today against the overhyped PAC-10. New Mexico beat Arizona, BYU destroyed UCLA, TCU pounded Stanford, and UNLV beat a very over rated Arizona State team at Arizona State! That is hillarious that one of the worst teams in the MWC beat one of the best in the PAC 10. Today was proof that the MWC deserves to get a BCS bid and that without USC the PAC-10 might as well be the BIG East, or the WAC, or the MWC. So funny how they got their heads handed to them on a platter today. I love it.
Saturday, September 13, 2008
Mountain West Conf. Owns the PAC-10
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70 comments:
What a fanboy! ;)
Seriously though, it was quite a good showing for the MWC. UNLV upsetting Arizona State bodes well for our ranking too. Utah is no slouch this year either, although a shutout against a Pac-10 team says a lot more than a trouncing of Utah State.
DOMINATED.
Jeremy
Come on dude, the MWC is the poor mans PAC-10. Yeah so they had a good week but the only way that BYU is ever going to be taken seriously is to get into a bigger conference. There is no way they will ever make a national title game because of their conference. BYU's next step needs to be getting into the PAC-10. I know these are fighting words, but if you want to fight I guess you'll just have to come out here and visit. Come out on Halloween and do the invisalign course with me.
Bryce
BYU getting into a bigger conference assumes that a bigger conference wants BYU. There has been talk that the Y and the U should leave the MWC and join the Pac-10, making it the Pac-12, allowing for a conference championship game, but the Pac-10 doesn't want them, at least not right now.
The PAC-10 has no desire to expand because they don't want to slice up their pie of BCS money more than 10 ways. They have no reason to expand. BYU and Utah's best chance of getting into the BCS game is to expand the MWC to include Boise St and Fresno St and then be far better than the Big East or ACC in football so that the BCS has to either include a 7th conference or replace the worst currently in it. The PAC-10 idea has been tossed around for years, but sadly I don't see anything ever materializing in that direction. So, for now, BYU, Utah and TCU need to keep winning and we need to hope that the Big East and ACC tank this year and years to come.
Pac-10 chupa! 'bout time those boys have to admit what they blew off as midmajor conference crap.
Lis, you look so cute!! I can't believe you are already 1/2 way there!! Sounds like you guys have been having fun lately. I'm glad Tucker is doing well with the potty training - I am going back and forth with if I should start Addy or wait until the winter when you have nothing else to do but sit inside and go to the potty every 5 minutes. Anyway, I, also, am SOOOOO excited for the Fall shows to start and for birthdays! September is a great month!! You are reading both of my FAVORITE series - Anita Stansfield's & Shopaholics! Yay! Did I suggest those to you? Anyway, thanks for the update :)
Keep dreaming. One week. A fluke. TCU is a good team. Arizona is horrible and has been for like 6 years, UCLA was playing all back-ups, Still not sure how ASU lost and the only upset of all four games. Good to see you so happy. Go Cardinals.
ASU is overrated though. Rudy Carpenter is a baby. Too bad we dumped Maxxy Boy.
Please Joe, don't come on here defending the PAC-1.5 when all the comentators agree that they are over-rated. And as for UCLA playing all their backups, what an extreme exageration you use to try and justify your attitude. They (UCLA) didn't pull their starters the entire game and were still getting schooled by BYU's 2nd and 3rd string players. UCLA was on a backup quarterback and running back, we all know that and understand that to be a hinderance to their offense, but how do you explain their defense not being able to stop BYU from scoring with their starters? They still had their original starters on defense including some pre-season hyped DB's that got destroyed by the BYU offense. As for ASU dumping Max Hall, he chose to go to BYU on his own accord because he saw the writing on the wall. Also, if you can't play with the injuries of a few starters, then you don't belong in that upper echelon to begin with. Utah lost their top 4 offensive players last year and still made it to a bowl game and won. Where are the excuses for them? Face it, the PAC-10 elitist attitude that you embrace has finally been shown for the arrogant, egocentric fraud that it is. PAC-1.5 fans should thank their lucky stars for Pete Carrol. Were it not for him, the conference would get no media love for football.
As for it being a fluke, that's what people have been saying for the past several years. BYU beat Oregon in a bowl game, UCLA in a bowl game, Utah has beaten several PAC-wuss teams in bowl games, including USC in the 2001copper bowl. Who besides USC in the PAC-10 can you honestly say is superior to BYU or Utah? Washington State? Oregon State? Maybe Stanford? We have already seen that BYU and Utah can and have regularly beaten UCLA, Arizona, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford and Washington. Again, outside of USC the teams in your beloved conference are not that much better than the top of the MWC or WAC.
When does a consistent pattern quit being a fluke? Oh yeah, it will always be a fluke because of the elitist, jerk mentality that BYU and Utah can't compete. Please, step off your platform and accept the fact that the divide is not as great as you would like to believe.
Also for Joe and the other MWC haters. I found this on a blog that backs up my statements with facts-something the MWC haters don't provide. All they provide is "MWC sucks!" Here you go, cold hard facts:
"Top 4 MWC vs. All BCS Opponents past 3 yrs. (TCU, Utah, New Mexico and BYU)
20 wins 12 losses .625%
Only 9 teams in the conf. even with top 5, over half, we are 22-15 .595% added wyo
Top 4 MWC vs. All BCS Opponents past 5 yrs.
28 wins 20 Losses .583% (TCU, Utah, air force and BYU)
And you would think our bottom half would get waxed and completely drag us down, not so, even with our so called weaklings the MWC is 25-31 against BCS the past three years, take out SDSU and we are 25-25, dead even as a conference against all other BCS foes. No gap!
bottom line is we do consistently beat or play with bcs teams year in and year out, this is not new this year. We then beat each other up in conference, with one team emerging getting a hint of media attention. the conference really is better then people think, but that is because nobody has known about the other teams because of our TV deal, so our strength of schedule is always way too low cause everybody believes the rest of the middle to end of MWC is like the wac which is far from the truth. There is no gap, thus I leave you to ponder the $15 million BCS game vs. the $1.25 million las vegas bowl every year... Surely our cries of respect and injustice take hold of new meaning now. This was a reality check brought to you by the MWC."
So please, don't go hating on the MWC anymore. All you do is show your arrogance and ignorance.
Joe, I don't know you, but I do know that the following quote from a comment here on this post is very accurate...
"Face it, the PAC-10 elitist attitude that you embrace has finally been shown for the arrogant, egocentric fraud that it is."
Look at the stats...do numbers lie?
After living on the East Coast for four years I have a sensitive nerve when elitist fans of elitist conferences or coasts ignore the data. Please don't tell me you do research!?
Joe, Joe, Joe...
You are more blind and biased than a PAC 10 ref. Honestly...do you even have a TV? Maybe it is because you continue to look at things through those elitist PAC 10 colored goggles you got out of your cereal box. Your comment shows that you don't truly formulate your own opinions, yet allow ESPN to think for you.
BYU showed up and played 4 quarters of football...the unequivocally won that game. Better than just winning, however, they did it with poise. Hall, along with a number of the starters were pulled in the 3rd quarter. UCLA's starters played the whole game. Don't give lip about them being relatively new in the lineup...the BYU Defense was practically brand new as well and they still CRUSHED the UCLA offense that beat TENNESSEE.
UCLA has lost Majorly to MWC teams over the last 2 years...so bad you can bet they will not be trying to schedule the MWC to pad their non conference schedule. In fact, I don't think many of the PAC 10 teams will want to schedule MWC teams in the near future, seeing that they are statistically likely to EMBARRASS them. BYU alone would have likely won the first game last year, had UCLA not had the assistance of the famed PAC 10 Refs.
Someone recently referred to the PAC 10 as...yea, USC and the 9 dwarfs. HOW FREAKING TRUE! Oregon goes to BYU's lowly Las Vegas bowl 2 years ago and their coach states that BYU is "not even a mid level PAC 10 team..." Even the Oregon Fans told him to insert his foot in his mouth after that flogging. One of the ASU players stated of UNLV that "They aren't even in the same league as us." That is right...UNLV is in a league ABOVE ASU...
BYU blocks a kick 3 out of the last 4 games that it has played...it stops being luck after 2.
The PAC 10 should try to recruit BYU so they aren't embarrassed consistently by a non-conference team. And fans like you should open your eyes and see that what WAS five years ago IS not the present...get into the present man.
Jeremy
Jeremy:
You question whether Joe "Even [has] a tv." Had he no TV, how would he "Allow ESPN to think for [him]."
Mieszus:
When you refer to the "The U" I assume you mean the University of Miami - Don't think they'd want to move to the Pac-10
Cody:
If the Pac-10 accepted BYU and had to, as you say,"slice up their pie of BCS money more than 10 ways" you assume that BYU would be a burden rather than a boon. As a total byu homer, I don't think that's the argument you're trying to make.
Anon,
I'll answer for Cody...I don't think he feels like they will be a liability, but the Pac-10 does, and that would be their argument for not letting them in.
Exhibit A that BYU does not deserve a BCS bid:
Northern Iowa
Washington
UCLA
Wyoming
Utah State
New Mexico
TCU
UNLV
Colorado State
San Diego State
Air Force
Utah
I guess if you have no big opponents to look forward to you never have to worry about stumbling in the week before. BYU will most likely not play another ranked team in their entire 2008 schedule. GO MWC!!
p.s.
I posted before reading all of the rambling about how arrogant "PAC 1.5" fans are. As a fan of the PAC-10 I do concede that the MWC has been improving and is definitely a viable opponent for PAC 10 teams but lets be honest if MWC teams had to play week in and week out the competition of the PAC 10 they would have some growing pains. It is one thing to get hyped up for one season game and a bowl game and a completely different one to play the whole conference schedule. Just celebrate with that "QUIET Dignity" that the supposed "Lord's school" is supposed to have and stop complaining that you never get what you deserve.
p.s.s. That was a pretty good showing for them Cougars.
The infamous Joe returns! First of all, if you think I'm not a BYU fan you are all wrong. I actually have more BYU apparel than ASU apparel. I love BYU and think they have had an amazing team the last couple of years. Their offense this year is unreal. I hope they go to a BCS game. And No I'm not a bandwagon fan, I'm an ASU fan from very young. Didn't grow up in Zion, didn't watch BYU games, so the blood developed Maroon and Gold. I mean, I always wanted BYU to do well, you know, The Lord's school and all, and went to BYU during the Crowton years, went to every game and remember my last game attended BYU vs. Utah in Provo. I stayed till the end of the game to watch BYU lose 3-0 and snap a 65 year scoring streak. So yes I'm a BYU fan, no I'm not just jumping on a bandwagon, I'm pretty loyal, but I get a little agitated when it's assumed that since I'm Mormon, BYU has to be my number one team no matter what. Reminds me of the "arrogance and ignorance" (cody) that annoying BYU fans and Utah Mormons sometimes can exhibit. So thanks for judging me and trying to tell me how cool BYU football is.
Now to address my statement that has consumed your mind for the last week and has caused you to seek out your "cold hard facts" which I was almost certain came from www.MWC-haters.com, but I'm sure there is another similar website out there. Tell me that you wouldn't be a little scared to play USC, Cal, Oregon State, and Arizona State all in one season. Now I think ASU is could be a little overrated this year, but we'll know for sure where they are after they play No. 1 USC and No. 3 Georgia in the next few weeks so we can save commentary till then. I'm sorry NONE of your MWC teams will have to play anyone of that strength so we'll just have to extrapolate. But most BYU fans were scared about Washington and UCLA this year, two of the lesser of the PAC-10 teams this year. Pac-10 refs suck, but Washington isn't that good of a team. I'm sure all of you were holding your breath as Locker overthrew 3 or 4 wide wide open receivers on the last drive of the game. Washington clearly isn't the elite of the PAC-10.
As for UCLA. I'm sure it's hard to forget that Swift was their 3rd QB on the depth chart this spring and looked horrible in the first half against Tennessee. They were also without their starting RB and TE for the game. So imagine playing without Hall, Gaskins, Pitta, or Unga. Probably a different outcome right. Great game, great win, but UCLA might not make a bowl game this year.
So who else does the MWC have? TCU? Good team, has been for a while and still is from their last few years in the MWC. I'm sure you're happy they are in the MWC because who else do you have? Utah? BYU is certainly scared to play Utah at the end of the season right? Utah beats Michigan, who is slapped around by Notre Dame, so how good is Michigan? I wonder who would win, Michigan or "TENNESSEE?" (jeremy)
BYU within the last two years lost to UCLA and Arizona, which other PAC-10 teams did they beat? Oh, a bad Arizona team last year in Provo, and UCLA in a bowl game. A UCLA team that had a brand new coach for that game and BYU almost gave the game away anyways. So what other arguments do you have? Oregon State in a bowl game 4 years ago? Bring something else please. Oh yeah, UTAH beat USC in 2001. That's right.
So hopefully the MWC is on the way up. But seriously, how bout they play somebody. I'm sure if LSU and Georgia are willing to play ASU, they would be willing to play Utah, New Mexico, UNLV, Wyoming, and San Diego State as well. BYU will get to show it next year when they play ASU and Florida State. Good for them.
So a crappy TV contract, that's your excuse?
I'm not trying to BYU bash here, but trying to show that your educated comparisons between the MWC and the Pac-10 might have a few flaws.
By the way, my wife kisses me every time BYU scores a touchdown and it gets better if they win, so why wouldn't I want them to score 59 points every week.
Sigh, Nathan and Joe. Apparently you didn't read my comments. You claim that BYU would be scared to play the teams in the PAC, but didn't Utah destroy your beloved Oregon State last year? Didn't BYU destroy Oregon two years ago? BYU can compete with any team in the PAC on any given week and consistently do well (with the exception of USC, but how many times has ASU beat USC in the last 4 years?) I do agree that if BYU were in the BIG 12, the PAC or the SEC that they wouldn't run the table as often. Nobody on here has claimed that. All we are saying is that for every 10-2 or 9-3season that Oregon or ASU has in the PAC that BYU could do the same. You act as if ASU, Oregon or CAL are so superior, we show you the facts that they are not. Nathan, you didn't present one single fact, just pure conjecture and opinion. All you did was show the BYU schedule, which as I have proven, has several teams which consistently beat the PAC teams. So please, until you can come back with some substance, refrain from belittling the MWC or BYU.
of course I read your comments. I even quoted you.
Fine Joe, then you apparently refuse to accept the facts of my comments or you need some reading comprehension. You claim that no one in the MWC will play teams of the caliber that ASU will. Yeah, you're right, ASU is a really crappy team. Too bad UNLV couldn't beat a much better caliber team to boost the strength of schedule for the MWC. Looks like we need to quit scheduling all those weak, crappy PAC teams that lower our strength of schedule. ASU got beat, at home, by a cellar dweller of the MWC and yet you pass it off as the MWC not playing tough teams. What an insult to ASU for you to say that. Too funny how selective you PAC fans are of the facts. You pick and choose that which will make you look tougher, yet ignore the current facts at hand.
I believe Oregon State destroyed Utah 24-7. Check my sources. http://utahutes.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/utah-m-footbl-sched2007.html
You're right about OSU and Utah. I was mistaken and was thinking of the UCLA spanking last year. We'll see what happens when the beavers come to Rice Eccles stadium next week.
PS Nathan, before you diss on BYU's schedule, let's see what ASU's oh-so difficult schedule was last year.
San Jose State (one of the worst WAC teams, 5-7 record last year)
Colorado (one of the worst BIG 12 teams, record last year was 6-7)
San Diego State (one of the worst MWC teams, 4-8 last year)
Oregon State (9-4)
Stanford (4-8 last year)
Washington State (5-7 last year)
Washington (4-9 last year)
California (6-6 last year)
Oregon (9-4)
UCLA (6-7)
USC (11-2)
Arizona (you already admitted that Arizona sucks, 5-7)
74-76 is the total win/loss record of their opponents-a losing record. And if you take out USC it plummets to 63-74, wow that is amazing. What a powerful schedule they have, look those formidable foes they face. You have me convinced, they are clearly better than BYU and the MWC (very tongue in cheek by the way).
BYU's opponents win/loss record is: 70-69 (not including E. Washington) and that includes the 2-10 UNLV that just beat the Wicked Awesome ASU Sundevils in Tempe. Wow. Say it aint so.
Oh and before you bag on BYU for playing E. Washington and NIU, that's because all the BCS teams refuse to schedule with BYU and they have to schedule those teams to fill the season. What you fail to admit is what BCS coaches recognize, teams don't want to play BYU for fear of losing to a weak, simple non-bcs team.
PPS-how about those Ducks? They sure beat up on that inferior WAC team at home, didn't they? Who does that leave in the PAC besides USC? That's right, no one. Again, have fun touting USC and the 9 dwarves.
You forget that 4 to 5 Pac 10 teams were in the AP top 25 every week last year. So naturally home teams would probably have the advantage and running the table would be almost impossible. In fact it didn't happen. Your argument is so lame. You know nothing outside your coveted MWC. Along with USC, Cal and Oregon and Oregon State had amazing teams, but beat up on each others and were hampered by injuries at the end of the season. Still 4 teams were in the top 25 at the end of the year. ASU was a sleeper last year. They are still rebuilding from several bad years. As I stated earlier, I think they were overrated coming into the season, but we'll get a chance to see where they stand when they play Georgia and USC. Also, nobody is bashing BYU. Where is anyone bashing BYU?
Also, you obviosly watched none of the UNLV ASU game. So any statement you make means nothing. Upsets happen. You have to live with it. You have to be realistic. Something that annoying MWC fans can't seem to understand.
"The Cougars have won a MWC record 17 straight conference games." That can only happen in a weaker conference. Inferior competition week in and week out.
Joe, your whole argument hinges on how "great" the PAC is. If the PAC truly is that great and that dominant, then maybe you begin to have a point. But as I have clearly shown you, the divide between the PAC and the MWC is not that great. You say that my argument is lame, but again proceed to provide nothing but opinion. Show me winning percentages and numbers. I have provided the numbers, you have not. You start trying to undermine me by saying "you obviously watched none of the UNLV ASU game". How do you know? I happened to be following that game that day for the very purpose of being able to cheer on UNLV against the overrated PAC. Again, thank you for proving how ignorant you truly are with your silly comments.
Also, just because I cheer for the MWC doesn't mean I am as ignorant as you with regards to other conferences. I happen to love college football and follow what goes on outside the MWC.
Also, you claim that Cal had an amazing team. You really consider 6-6 amazing? That is hillarious. Who did they beat? Tennessee? Too funny. Is this the same Tennessee that UCLA had such a magnificent victory against this year? The same UCLA that BYU trounced? Uh, ok, you go ahead and run with that argument.
Also, saying that BYU plays inferior competition week in and week out is the same competition that has gone undefeated against your precious PAC 10 this year. Your argument gets more and more pathetic the more this continues. I repeatedly have shown you the numbers that the MWC isn't this lowly, undeserving conference that you keep claiming it is. I have not advocated that it is the best conference, but rather a deserving conference of a BCS bid because it has teams that consistently win against BCS teams. So, please Joe, let's hear some more of your ignorant, arrogant defenses of ASU and the PAC. I love to shut you down with FACTS! You claim that MWC fans aren't being realistic and therefore are annoying. Hey dude, try looking in a mirror.
"I happened to be following that game that day for the very purpose of being able to cheer on UNLV against the overrated PAC." So you followed the game or you watched it? Which one? You bring garbage facts about the PAC 10 conference in 2007 and I bring up that 4 to 5 of Pac-10 teams were ranked in the top 25 all each week all year long. You can check it out if you google 2007 AP football rankings. If you are playing against teams week in and week out that are ranked in the top 25 then you are playing against tough team and you might finish with a 9-4 or 8-5 ranking. How do you like dem numbers? You are "arrogant and ignorant." You love the word arrogant by the way. Your facts about BCS teams and MWC teams mean nothing. MWC teams could have a .625 winning percentage with bottom dwellers of BCS conference teams. Your number mean nothing therefore I ignore your stupid numbers. All I think of is how you are a "elitist, jerk." Give me the last 5 top 20 teams that MWC teams have beat. Those might mean something.
sweet... hey joe, where's a water bottle when you need one?
How is the PAC-10 doing today Joe? After today, there will be 3 MWC teams ranked and only one PAC team. Or is that still garbage facts because it doesn't support your silly position? So, BYU will be playing week in and week out against ranked teams, teams from the MWC, while the PAC league will be playing against each other (all inferior competition according to your logic because they aren't ranked, and all this before league play when they begin to "beat up" on each other.)
I like how you keep using the term "might". That's not facts. Or maybe you aren't smart enough to realize that. Using "might" is not numbers, so I don't like "dem numbers".
If I use the word arrogant alot it's because it is very fitting to your snobby attitude towards the MWC. You refuse to give them any credit, therefore, you are arrogant. Websters dictionary: Arrogant- (adj) exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner.
Yep, that sounds like you Joe. You call my facts garbage simply because they don't support your claim, and then you come back with "might" and "could". Wow, solid facts there buddy! And, how am I the elitist jerk when I am calling for equality? Yeah, you know that darn equality, you are such an elitist Cody!!!
"Your number mean nothing therefore I ignore your stupid numbers." Translation:"Your numbers support your claim, so I am going to ignore that which doesn't help my cause". Not only are you arrogant and ignorant, but you are blind as well Joe. Keep proving me right.
Cal was ranked at number 3 in the nation at one point last year. You might have known that if you really followed football outside of the MWC. So why did they finish 6-6? Well, "maybe" it had to do with injuries. Lost the QB for several games. The RB for several games. Seasons obviously can turn if that happens. Also, you have no understanding that things change from year to year. History also means nothing to you Teams change. Someone so intelligent as you should understand that. Yeah, the pac-10 isn't as good this year. I can accept that. The MWC hasn't become a powerhouse though. So basically I've learned what most people already knew. You can't argue with Cody Calderwood. He knows everything and you are just ignorant and arrogant if you don't accept his views. Thanks for enlightening me.
Wyoming is the 5th ranked MWC team? Are you kidding me?
Joe, don't tell me that Cal started the season ranked high. So what, they were overrated, what did they do to prove they deserved that ranking throughout the season? (by the way, just because I didn't mention that doesn't mean I didn't know it, lol, I don't refer to pre-season rankings or other trivial nonsense. I look at the work of a season) You keep referring to the injuries for all the PAC losses. BYU and Utah could have easily done that the last several years. Last year, BYU lost their top RB-Fui, but guess what? Someone stepped up big behind him-Unga. That's what good teams do, their bench players step up big. Aside from Fui, BYU also lost several key starters on defense to injuries, but you never heard Bronco or the Cougars making excuses for injuries.
This quote is for you: "Excuses are the nails used to build a house of failure." ~Don Wilder and Bill Rechin
Keep the excuses coming though, because tomorrow when the rankings come out you will have no leg to stand on once the MWC has 3ranked teams and your precious PAC has one, the only team in the conference that has a claim to superiority-USC. By the way, I know that teams change, that is what I have been trying to show in this entire thread genius. Why should the BCS conferences be entitled to all the money just because they dominated in the 90's? TEAMS CHANGE JOE! These so called superior BCS teams are not so superior this season, so rightfully the best teams in the country should be allowed to go to the top bowls regardless of their conference affiliation. The MWC and the other non-BCS programs should be allowed access to the enormous sums of money that go to only BCS conferences. By the way, how many national championships does ASU football have? How many Heisman trophy winners, Doak Walker award winners, and Outland trophy winners have they had? Not even in the same league as BYU. Just curious then why they are so superior a program to BYU.
Oh, and I love how once you have run out of things to say, your only defense is, "You can't argue with Cody Calderwood. He knows everything and you are just ignorant and arrogant if you don't accept his views." No, you are ignorant and arrogant if you refuse to accept the facts and ignore the truth. Present me facts and I'll accept them. Just like when I accepted that Utah lost to Oregon State, I will admit when I am wrong, unlike you who keeps digging himself deeper and deeper into this sinking pit of nonsense. Admit that BYU, Utah, Boise St., Fresno State and other good programs deserve to get an automatic $2 million a year for doing nothing more than belonging to a BCS conference. Much like Baylor, Washington State, Minnesota, Vanderbilt, Villanova and other football pygmies do. The BSC is a sham, and is supported on the backs of some prideful Americans belonging to a good-ole-boys club that refuse to let anyone else in.
A banged up Cal team beat Air Force in the bowl game last year. Isn't Air Force in the MWC?
Week 6 of the season USC was ranked number 2 in the nation, Cal was ranked number 3 after beating Tennessee, Colorado State, Louisiana Tech, Arizona, and Number 11 ranked Oregon at Oregon. It wasn't preseason ranking, it was more than half way through the season. The only research you have is from your friends BYU football blog. Lame.
So if Max Hall and Harvey Unga got hurt, BYU wouldn't miss a beat?
Hopefully this link works. Do a little research. This is why the Pac-10 gets an automatic bid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
2007_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_rankings
Pac-10 vs. MWC 2007 results
Cal goes 2-0 (airforce, colorado state)
Oregon goes 1-0 (Utah)
ASU 1-0 (San Diego State)
Oregon State didn't play any
USC didn't play any.
Those are the top 5 Pac-10 schools and seems like they went undefeated against MWC teams.
Washington didn't play any
Washington State 1-0 (San Diego)
Arizona 0-2 (BYU, New Mexico)
UCLA 1-2 (BYU win, Utah, BYU loss)
Stanford 0-1 (TCU)
Bottom Five goes 2-6
So That's where you are getting your facts huh? The bottom 5 of the Pac-10 lose to BYU, New Mexico, TCU, Utah (The top four of the MWC).
The Bottom 5 of the Pac-10 beat BYU and San Diego State (a given win right)
And that's your argument that MWC is comparable to the Pac-10. Do you consider these facts? Obviously your facts don't deal with the top 5 teams of the Pac-10 because they went undefeated against your precious MWC.
So yes, the MWC can play with the bottom five of the Pac-10. Congratulations Cody.
In 2006 Pac-10 vs. MWC teams were
USC Didn't play
Oregon 0-1 (BYU)
Oregon State Didn't Play any
Cal Didn't play any
UCLA 1-0 (Utah)
ASU Didn't play any
Arizona 1-0 (BYU Ouch!)
Washington didn't play any
Washington State didn't play any
Stanford didn't play any
So this is the data that you want to use to back up that the MWC is superior to the Pac-10? Doesn't seem very convincing in your favor. I don't see any big wins in there for the MWC. BYU against Oregon? We aren't arguing BYU. They've been running the table every year in the MWC. We're talking MWC. It's not that strong of a conference. You might have 3 in the top 25 right now, but the Pac-10 always has 4 to 5. So play somebody and beat somebody and then we can resume this conversation. Invite your other MWC friends.
NICE. This keeps getting better and better.
I enjoyed the games yesterday. Saw NC state take out ECU. LSU fend off Auburn. BYU beat Wyoming, comfortably. Also saw Georgia beat down ASU.
A interesting sat that I got from ESPN (not that I get all my info, or bias, from ESPN...just a stat) was that "Arizona State fell to 3-26 against the Top 25 since 2000."
(Pause)
(Let that stat sink in)
(More Pause)
ASU was overrated. (Citation = above STAT). I think that they should have an automatic BCS berth with their consistent record against the best teams in the nation.
BYU is having a great year. Granted, I would love to see them play more top 25 teams, however, schedules are decided YEARS in advance. Todays top 25 may be Sub 25 in as litle as a season.
I also speculate that there is a bit of padding that goes on with many teams. Why else would you see Michigan playing Appalachian State...honestly?? I believe that teams like BYU are not seen playing against some of these teams because they are not an EASY win. Why play BYU and risk a loss? (Quote = 1989 BYU vs. MIAMI). I can guarantee that you won't see UCLA wanting to shedule Utah or BYU in the upcoming years. The above is speculation, but you have to agree there is some sense to it.
GO ASU! Go OREGON! Hopefully USC will continue to dominate and make the PAC 1 have at least one thing to gloat about.
Jeremy
I think its funny Joe how you cling to the defense that "teams change" but refuse to acknowledge that MWC teams can change too. It goes both ways man. Don't be a hypocrite. By the way, the AP polls are out:
BYU #11
Utah #17
TCU #24
The only PAC team ranked is USC. Again, outside of USC, this year the MWC has better teams, and therefore deserves a shot at the BCS money.
How many top 25 teams has the whole MWC beaten since 2000?
Dude, you really are going to keep going after seeing that ASU is 3-26 against top 25 teams since 2000? That is laughable. I obviously see that there is no way you are going to concede that the MWC is a good conference. So, let me pose this question: Because the MWC has more ranked teams this year than the PAC-10, do they deserve to have a team in the BCS game, even if that top team doesn't go undefeated? I say yes (which is what the whole purpose of my entire thread has been). Yes teams change (don't be a hypocrite on this now) and I want to see the best teams this year playing in those bowl games, even if that means no one from the Big Least, ACC or PAC 1+9 gets in. I don't care about those so called "power" conferences. If they are having a down year, then allow those teams that are performing well to go. So again, I ask you, if the season rankings we have today remained unchanged come December, do you think the MWC deserves an automatic bid?
MWC teams ranked = 3
PAC teams ranked = 1
Well fortunately for all of us, it looks like USC will be the team that represents from the Pac-10, and definitely deserving. Ohio State isn't deserving from the Big 10, and Nobody from the ACC is deserving, so considering all of this...BYU should get a BCS bid especially if they win out. If they loose only one game this year I wouldn't have a problem with them going, but no two loss team from the MWC should be able to go. But BYU, Ohio State, ACC leader shouldn't go over any of the top 5 SEC teams. The whole automatic bid thing worthless, but I'm sure Utah enjoyed playing a No. 19 ranked Boston College team though.
I don't know why I can't be an ASU fan though. Yeah, they haven't been great for many years, but loyalty is loyalty. I'm not claiming them to be great. So what if they've gone 3-26 against top 25 teams. They are still my team. I grew up with them being my team and they will remain my team. So quit knocking ASU. The Pac-10 doesn't look very good this year at all, but history shows that this isn't a normal year for the Pac-10. USC will rightfully represent and we'll wait till next year.
I don't like how you dismiss my arguments though. How many top 25 teams has the entire MWC beaten since 2000? Answer me that one question.
Joe, no one has ever said you couldn't cheer for ASU. Don't try and play the victim here. All we have been doing all along is try to get you off your high horse thinking that ASU is so much better than than BYU and that the PAC is so superior to the MWC. I don't care if you cheer for ASU, in fact I appreciate people that cheer for teams where they grew up (i.e. Skinner). I cheered for the Terps while I lived in Maryland, I also cheer for Air Force now. Just don't get all high and mighty with us spouting off pure opinion that ASU is better than BYU and putting them down, which you have. Basically by saying that BYU plays weak schedules and couldn't compete if they were in the PAC is putting BYU down.
As for your statistic, you are the one that wants to know that, so why don't you look it up? I am not dismissing your argument, I just have alot better things to do than be your stat boy. I already gave you plenty of statistics. Its actually funny you complain about that though because you have dismissed so many of my points and arguments.
Before you go off being an elitist again, let me prove to you again that ASU isn't superior to BYU. How many national championships does ASU have? Zero. How many Heisman trophy winners does ASU have? Zero. How many Doak Walker award winners does ASU have? Zero. How many Outland Trophy winners does ASU have? Zero. BYU has one of each. By me putting those numbers out there for you, I am not saying that BYU is the best ever or that ASU sucks, just trying to give you a dose of reality that BYU does belong in BCS conversations and should be allowed just as much access to those bowl games as ASU, Baylor, Duke, Vanderbilt and other BSC teams have.
Correction, BYU has had 2 Outland trophy award winners and 3 Davey Obrien Award winners in addition. My bad.
Oh, also, before you go and spout nonsense about how I don't know anything outside of the MWC (really weak argument from you by the way), I know that in '02 Terrell Suggs won 3 of the only 4 personal awards ASU has ever had. The 4th coming last year for the kicker, the Lou Groza award.
Cody, has anyone every told you that you're pretty similar to a baptist preacher?
Stubborn as hell and think that youre the only person thats right and that everyone else is going to hell.
Wow.......
wow.
Dear Mr./Mrs. Anonymous, thanks to your IP adress, I do know who you are and find it hillarious that you feel the need to go anonymous for a personal attack on me. Real mature. And in response to what you said, where have I said everyone disagreeing with me is going to hell? You're just mad that I have shown the weakness in the argument of elitist punks claiming superiority over BYU and the MWC. The tides are changing, and even the national sports media is beginning to see what I have explained on this thread. Teams like BYU, ECU, Utah, Boise State, Fresno State and Tulsa can compete with the so called "big boys" and beat them. If you can't come on here and contribute something more than "you are stubborn as hell", please go do a little research and return with some coherent, intelligent arguments for your cause.
Well, I think that pretty much everything that can be said has been. Luckily for all of us it is just a game. (I know cody your preparing a comment about how I only say that cause ASU sucks) I can honestly say that of all the BYU fans I know I like them all. They make me want to cheer for a non-BCS team to brake the bracket. Names of such individuals will be withheld but they all think that BYU fans like you are why people like to cheer against BYU. Like I said before just enjoy your wins and stop crying that you never get what you deserve. If your lucky you will get an at-large bid and get to play Georgia. (Hawaii loved that "opportunity" last year)
Go Cougars!
so.... you know my IP address but still call me Mr/Mrs. Anonymous? Why wouldnt you call me out? Sounds like a very Cody-esque thing to do.
Huh? Hmmm? I've actually said a number of personal attacks to your face, just didnt feel like logging in. Now that I see it bugs you, I shall continue.
Anyway, back to the argument at hand. The whole people not agreeing with you going to hell, that was an analogy. Get it? The preacher thinks that everyone is going to hell because the disagree with him. Similarly, Cody has the extreme need to always be right and call everyone who says that there is actually gray in this world and not just black and white as ignorant haters bla bla bla.
Just calling it as it is. As to the "Real mature" remark, I hereby declare you to be a doo doo head.
I deem the anonymous comment..."BEST EVER".
Pass the popcorn...
Dear anonymous, I didn't call you out for two reasons, 1-you would just deny it, 2-I am giving you the opportunity to be an adult and own up to it. And I absolutely disagree with your nonsense statement of "Cody has the extreme need to always be right and call everyone who says that there is actually gray in this world and not just black and white as ignorant haters". I am the one claiming that there is a giant gray area being ignored by the BCS and its supporters. The BCS is the one that operates on black and whites. Again, a completely weak argument you are using just trying to fling personal attacks at me because you have run out of substantial arguments. With that being said, if you can't contribute anything of substance to this argument then I will proceed to delete all of your comments because you are turning this into a junior high fight and I'm sure you are all giddy over your childish remarks. So, grow up, get real, quit the personal attacks, and bring something intelligent to this.
Hilarious (1 l Cody, not 2, I usually don't correct spelling online but you used 2 l's 3 different times)
How about everyone just sits back and waits to see how this all plays out at the end of the year?
Eh? Eh?
BTW, free speech man, no need to delete posts.
Thanks for you input Paul, but I will delete posts that are not constructive so that readers of this thread will not be distracted by trivial, childish remarks. I am the moderator, therefore I will decide the tone and direction of this. And I want this to avoid becoming some silly attack on the character of other people as has been the case toward me. Instead of focusing on the issue at hand some unimformed, childish defenders of the BCS have decided that they would rather attack me than the MWC or BYU. Also, do we really want to start nit-picking other peoples spelling on a casual internet forum? Is that what we have to resort to? Have we really run out of enough facts and objective discussion that we need to criticize others for poor spelling? I would hope we could all be more mature than that.
As for the point you did bring to the discussion, I agree that I should hold much of my argument until the end of the season. The problem I have with that is by then, if nothing changes it will be too late to know for sure. I would rather have it decided on the field than have to ask "what if". Much like in 2004, I feel Utah could have competed for the National Championship and had a shot at winning, but unfortunately none of us will ever know.
Well, I've been away for awhile....
Cody says:
"Just don't get all high and mighty with us spouting off pure opinion that ASU is better than BYU and putting them down, which you have."
Joe now says: Cody, you are welcome to read all my posts and find where I said that. BYU would probably beat ASU right now. We'll know for sure next year which team is superior.
I told you why I didn't like your facts, numbers. Go back and read my numbers. I need reading comprehension?
You are so happy to tell me that ASU has gone 3-26 against top 25 teams since 2000 so I'm comparing ASU to the entire MWC to see if maybe they even have one win as an entire conference against top 25 teams since 2000. Admit it dude, you got nothing.
Doak Walker? Outlander? Are you kidding me? That means BYU is so good? Heisman award winner? Whose the last Heisman award winner on LSU? Auburn? National Championship? ASU was nine seconds away from a National Championship. Does that count?
How Many Lou Groza Award winners does BYU have? How many Bronko Nagurski Award winners does BYU have? How many Vince Lombardi Award winners does BYU have? How many Ted Hendricks Award does BYU have? Boo Yah Baby! Tomatela
BCS has as much right to go to the BCS as Baylor, Duke, and Vanderbilt. Have those teams ever gone to a BCS? Will they ever? No! Hopefully BYU has more of a chance.
May Utah never be mentioned in the same category as USC, Auburn, Oklahoma. (The three that finished above Utah in 2004.
Ah Joe, so refreshing to not have some third grade mentality comments on here finally (yes I'm referring to the sophomore dental students that invaded this thread). Unfortunatley this thread has been plagued by idiots today that feel the need to attack me instead of talking football.
As for the MWC beating top 25 teams, like I said, I'm not going to do the research, but off the top of my head the MWC has beaten serveral top 25 teams. I remember in '06 BYU beat #17 TCU, '07 Utah beat #11 UCLA, '06 TCU beat #24 Texas Tech, and a stunner in '05 when they beat #7 Oklahoma. I can't remember much beyond that, I'm sure that BYU didn't beat any top teams during the woeful Crowton era (refer back to my comment about how teams change, under Bronco this is a completely different program). Hopefully that will semi-satisfy you on that topic.
Again, by me listing out the Heisman, Doak Walker, Outland, etc. was not to claim BYU was a perenial national contender, but rather to point out that ASU is not so superior, and that BYU is no scrub. If your intent was not to elevate ASU superior to BYU, I apologize for my misconception. That is what I perceived. If you do want to spend some time digging up archives I guarantee you that you will be surprised by how many award winners LSU and Auburn have. USC has been fortunate to win the most publicized award, the Heisman, several times this decade, but the other "powerhouses" also have other awards. Admit it, if it weren't for Suggs, you probably wouldn't recognize what the Hendricks award was. I know I wouldn't.
And, I seriously do believe that in '04 Utah was that good. They were an amazing team that year, and don't use the BYU game as proof that they were mediocre because in that rivalry, it doesn't matter how awesome one team is and how horrible the other is, they both come to play as equals. I love and hate that about the rivalry. But, beyond that, Urban Meyer had that team firing on all cylinders and they knew how to not only score huge numbers, but to shut down opposing offenses.
Also, to anyone who thinks I'm the only one that believes BYU and the MWC deserve another look, check out some of the articles on ESPN today.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/notebook?page=notebook/onthemark0922
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/powerranking?pollId=1&week=4&season=2008
I invite my respect for the MWC to grow. BYU definitely has it. They could probably be the second team in the Pac-10 this year and I couldn't be happier. I love watching the cougs play. It's good to see that white boys, with a little ethnic mix, can play college football at a high level. It's too bad I had to go to BYU during the Crowton years, bad offense, worse defense. Bronco has had to fight for respect and he's doing it. I will never want Utah to excel though. That's just how true rivalry's go, just like I will never respect the Arizona Wildcats. Who cares what it does for the conference. It's just not worth giving their fans any leverage. Maybe you are a converted Cougar fan, but I will always root against Utah and Arizona.
Hopefully if BYU goes to a BCS, they will be able to play a top 5 team and show if they really are for real. No better way to demand respect.
Did anyone see the Charger game last night(vs. the jets)! I think we have a super bowl winner, why even play the rest of the year! I am bored of reading/talking the NCAA- Let's talk about my Chargers and how they got robbed in week 2 against Cody's beloved Broncos! I am leaving myself as anonymous so no one knows who this is!
Pac 2 or Pac 0? If Utah beats Oregon State, does that make Utah better than USC?
I'm feeling some chemistry between joe and cody. Oh and sorry about messing up the 69.
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